Friday, October 30, 2009

All the news that's fit to print. Not!

Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York posted the following on his archdiocesan web site yesterday ...

October 29, 2009

The following article was submitted in a slightly shorter form to the New York Times as an op-ed article. The Times declined to publish it. I thought you might be interested in reading it.

By Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan
Archbishop of New York

October is the month we relish the highpoint of our national pastime, especially when one of our own New York teams is in the World Series!

Sadly, America has another national pastime, this one not pleasant at all: anti-catholicism.

It is not hyperbole to call prejudice against the Catholic Church a national pastime. Scholars such as Arthur Schlesinger Sr. referred to it as “the deepest bias in the history of the American people,” while John Higham described it as “the most luxuriant, tenacious tradition of paranoiac agitation in American history.” “The anti-semitism of the left,” is how Paul Viereck reads it, and Professor Philip Jenkins sub-titles his book on the topic “the last acceptable prejudice.”

If you want recent evidence of this unfairness against the Catholic Church, look no further than a few of these following examples of occurrences over the last couple weeks:

  • On October 14, in the pages of the New York Times, reporter Paul Vitello exposed the sad extent of child sexual abuse in Brooklyn’s Orthodox Jewish community. According to the article, there were forty cases of such abuse in this tiny community last year alone. Yet the Times did not demand what it has called for incessantly when addressing the same kind of abuse by a tiny minority of priests: release of names of abusers, rollback of statute of limitations, external investigations, release of all records, and total transparency. Instead, an attorney is quoted urging law enforcement officials to recognize “religious sensitivities,” and no criticism was offered of the DA’s office for allowing Orthodox rabbis to settle these cases “internally.” Given the Catholic Church’s own recent horrible experience, I am hardly in any position to criticize our Orthodox Jewish neighbors, and have no wish to do so . . . but I can criticize this kind of “selective outrage.”

    Of course, this selective outrage probably should not surprise us at all, as we have seen many other examples of the phenomenon in recent years when it comes to the issue of sexual abuse. To cite but two: In 2004, Professor Carol Shakeshaft documented the wide-spread problem of sexual abuse of minors in our nation’s public schools (the study can be found here). In 2007, the Associated Press issued a series of investigative reports that also showed the numerous examples of sexual abuse by educators against public school students. Both the Shakeshaft study and the AP reports were essentially ignored, as papers such as the New York Times only seem to have priests in their crosshairs.  
  • On October 16, Laurie Goodstein of the Times offered a front page, above-the-fold story on the sad episode of a Franciscan priest who had fathered a child. Even taking into account that the relationship with the mother was consensual and between two adults, and that the Franciscans have attempted to deal justly with the errant priest’s responsibilities to his son, this action is still sinful, scandalous, and indefensible. However, one still has to wonder why a quarter-century old story of a sin by a priest is now suddenly more pressing and newsworthy than the war in Afghanistan, health care, and starvation–genocide in Sudan. No other cleric from religions other than Catholic ever seems to merit such attention.
  • Five days later, October 21, the Times gave its major headline to the decision by the Vatican to welcome Anglicans who had requested union with Rome. Fair enough. Unfair, though, was the article’s observation that the Holy See lured and bid for the Anglicans. Of course, the reality is simply that for years thousands of Anglicans have been asking Rome to be accepted into the Catholic Church with a special sensitivity for their own tradition. As Cardinal Walter Kasper, the Vatican’s chief ecumenist, observed, “We are not fishing in the Anglican pond.” Not enough for the Times; for them, this was another case of the conniving Vatican luring and bidding unsuspecting, good people, greedily capitalizing on the current internal tensions in Anglicanism.
  • Finally, the most combustible example of all came Sunday with an intemperate and scurrilous piece by Maureen Dowd on the opinion pages of the Times. In a diatribe that rightly never would have passed muster with the editors had it so criticized an Islamic, Jewish, or African-American religious issue, she digs deep into the nativist handbook to use every anti-Catholic caricature possible, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust, condoms, obsession with sex, pedophile priests, and oppression of women, all the while slashing Pope Benedict XVI for his shoes, his forced conscription -- along with every other German teenage boy -- into the German army, his outreach to former Catholics, and his recent welcome to Anglicans.

    True enough, the matter that triggered her spasm -- the current visitation of women religious by Vatican representatives -- is well-worth discussing, and hardly exempt from legitimate questioning. But her prejudice, while maybe appropriate for the Know-Nothing newspaper of the 1850’s, the Menace, has no place in a major publication today.

I do not mean to suggest that anti-catholicism is confined to the pages New York Times. Unfortunately, abundant examples can be found in many different venues. I will not even begin to try and list the many cases of anti-catholicism in the so-called entertainment media, as they are so prevalent they sometimes seem almost routine and obligatory. Elsewhere, last week, Representative Patrick Kennedy made some incredibly inaccurate and uncalled-for remarks concerning the Catholic bishops, as mentioned in this blog on Monday.   Also, the New York State Legislature has levied a special payroll tax to help the Metropolitan Transportation Authority fund its deficit. This legislation calls for the public schools to be reimbursed the cost of the tax; Catholic schools, and other private schools, will not receive the reimbursement, costing each of the schools thousands – in some cases tens of thousands – of dollars, money that the parents and schools can hardly afford. (Nor can the archdiocese, which already underwrites the schools by $30 million annually.) Is it not an issue of basic fairness for ALL school-children and their parents to be treated equally?

The Catholic Church is not above criticism. We Catholics do a fair amount of it ourselves. We welcome and expect it. All we ask is that such critique be fair, rational, and accurate, what we would expect for anybody. The suspicion and bias against the Church is a national pastime that should be “rained out” for good.

I guess my own background in American history should caution me not to hold my breath.

Then again, yesterday was the Feast of Saint Jude, the patron saint of impossible causes.

Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Conflicting data

Today's D&C features a page 1, above-the-fold article claiming that NY State led the nation in the number of people leaving the state between 2000 and 2008.

Entitled, "N.Y. tops in people loss," the story is based on a report just released by the Empire Center for New York State Policy. This report, which can be found here, says that it is "[b]ased on the latest data from the Census Bureau and the Internal Revenue Service."

Table 2 of this report claims to show the 2000-to-2008 population changes in each county in the state. However, when I saw that Monroe County had supposedly lost 20,783 people over those 8 years I began to suspect something was amiss.

You see, the U.S. Census Bureau has its population data on line and the loss it reports for Monroe County over the same 8 year period is a substantially smaller 6,252.

Curious as to the difference in combined population loss for the 12 counties which comprise DOR as reported by these sources, I created the following table from the on line Census data and Table 2 of the ECFNYSP report.

And so, if the ECFNYSP report is to be believed, DOR has lost 2.3% of its overall population over the last 8 years, while the census data on which it is supposedly based indicates that loss to be 0.7%.

While neither figure is significant in comparison with our 25.3% drop in Mass attendance over the same period, does anyone have any doubt which set of numbers DOR will cite the next time it blames declining Mass attendance on "demographic shifts?"

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Satan's M.O.

From Fr. Dwight Longenecker ...

The Slippery Slope

Here is how Satan spreads his lies:

1. Natural Law is ignored, undermined or made to look stupid by particular instances where it seems not apply.

2. Subsequently religious and civil authorities have their laws questioned because they are 'too strict' too 'black and white', 'unworkable' or 'lacking in compassion'.

3. Relativism is therefore introduced. An understanding gradually grows that 'there are no objective rules' that apply to all people at all times.

4. Individualism is the next step. 'I guess I have to decide what is right for me in my situation.'

5. Sentimentalism: People who live in a sinful situation demand that they not be judged. They deserve compassion and understanding. They are nice people really...but they have a problem. They're sick. They're wounded. Who are you to judge?

6. Dialogue is demanded. "You need to listen to us and to our stories. Then you will understand we are just like you."

7. Once sympathy is won, the goalposts are moved. Now they are not 'sick' or 'wounded' they're just 'different'. They expect to be accepted despite their 'differences'.

8. Equal rights are expected by those who are acting against God's law. "We are not asking you to approve us. We are simply asking you to tolerate a difference of opinion. Simply allow us to be who we are!"

9. Equal rights are demanded. Legislation and lobbying and protests are now in order. The pressure group for sin starts to get aggressive. They do so out of 'hurt' and 'woundedness.' Once they get their 'rights' (they claim) they will be happy and won't be so aggressive.

10. Tolerance being won, they will not stop. They now demand not only that you tolerate, but that you approve. They've moved from being 'sick' or 'wounded' or 'disabled' by their condition to tolerance, and now they proclaim their condition to be 'good'. As Thomas More was not allowed to remain silent on the King's 'great matter' but had to approve, so the pressure group insists on approval.

11. What was once tolerated now becomes mandatory. Society must integrate the new morality into every level--right down to schools and churches and scout groups. Everyone must adopt the new morality or suffer.

12. Persecution of those who resist.

13. Devil's real happy.

This process happens on an individual level, a family level, a community level and a societal level. The bigger the level the longer it takes, and for it to take effect at the societal, community and family level it must first work on the individual level.

This means you and I must watch for the signs in our own moral life and be alert. Any of us can go down this path, and any of us may be victims of those who are already well down the path of evil and darkness.

John Beaulieu coming to Bishop Kearney

This Wednesday at Bishop Kearney ...

Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Mother of Sorrows to lose 7th, 8th grades?

5th, 6th and 7th grade students at Our Mother of Sorrows school brought the following letter home today ...


Dear Parents and Guardians of 5th, 6th and 7th graders,

The Department of Catholic Schools has NOT made any determination concerning the continuation of 7th and 8th grade at Our Mother of Sorrows.

Enrollment in 7th and 8th grade is the determining factor. The Superintendent of Catholic Schools, Mrs Anne Wilkins-Leach and the Associate Superintendent for Curriculum, Sr Margaret Mancuso SSJ are most anxious to meet with us to discuss the situation. This meeting will be scheduled in the very near future. I am waiting for confirmation from our superintendent. It is imperative that at least one parent or guardian of each student in grades 5, 6, 7 must attend this meeting.

In addition to Our Mother of Sorrows, Siena Catholic Academy offers a 7th and 8th grade program within the Monroe County Catholic School System. In order for you to make an informed decision, principals have agreed to distribute information for the independent Catholic High Schools that also have a 7th and 8th grade program.

Your commitment ot Our Mother of Sorrows School is testimony of your support to Catholic Education. We look forward to meeting with you.


Mr. Samuel Zalacca


The parent who sent me this letter also wrote,

I thought that closing 13 of our schools would be enough for a few years but obviously it won't be. I doubt no matter the enrollment that they will keep those 2 grades open after this year. As many of us have thought, the goal is to not have the diocese fund ANYTHING regarding the schools, as seen by the paltry 5% they have designated from the annual appeal. Its again so disheartening, as parents are continually asked to give and make sacrifices, which we do, but in the end it makes no difference.

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Report from the Diocese of Buffalo

Kelly over at Catholic Ponderings was asked how things were going in her diocese.  Her reply follows ...

Things are great! Many parishes merged last year which shook a lot of people up, of course. It was done with the input of anyone who was willing to attend meetings and I think many have found it to be a blessing (though many refuse to admit it).

Our Bishop fights hard for our schools and frequently states that they are our most important ministry. We have seminarians at our very own seminary. Only one PA and he is an ordained permanent Deacon at a very small, rural parish that is linked to another. Our Cathedral looks like one. Lay homilies are forbidden. You will find that it is a minority of parishioners who assume the orans posture during the Our Father. In our parish, the priest who was teaching at our school instructed the children to NOT hold hands.

In the DOB, people kneel during Communion and do not sit until the priest finishes purifying the vessels and takes a seat himself. Many of our religious sisters wear habits - and the sisters who teach at our school in a full habit. Our Bishop addressed the laity in regard to Spiritus Christi and the virus they were spreading to Buffalo.

Candles, sanctus bells and incense are all seen as good things. We also do not have general confession - though I have known people who travel to the DOR so that they can be forgiven without confessing to a priest - or so they thought until I corrected them.

Is the DOB perfect? No, plenty of humanity to go around. But, many people from the DOR send their children to our school in LeRoy, and some even travel forty minutes to attend Mass with us. You can find out Diocesan newspaper here.

:) Dominus vobiscum!

Wednesday, October 14, 2009

"Too much fluffy-ruffle stuff"

I got a kick out of this one ...

When parochial teachers of Rochester, N. Y. gathered for an annual conference, 800 priests and nuns heard a speech by Rev. Francis Peter LeBuffe, S. J., business manager of the able Jesuit weekly America. An expert at making points of dogma crystal clear, Father LeBuffe had a blackboard handy, covered it with white, red, green, yellow chalk marks demonstrating the meaning of the Trinity, Original Sin, Transubstantiation, Incarnation. And then Father LeBuffe went on to say:

"Whether we like it or not, we Catholic teachers must realize that our courses in Religion are not being taught as they should be. They are frequently voted by the students to be 'the worst-taught courses in the curriculum.' We must teach fundamental dogmas rather than the frills and accidentals of Religion. . . . There is too much fluffy-ruffle stuff in pious books—entirely too much. I would like to take 90% of the spiritual books written and make a glorious bonfire of them, and their authors too, because they do not tell fundamental truths."

While the language points to a bygone era (this was written 72 years ago), the problem described sounds remarkably contemporary.

Source here.

Tuesday, October 13, 2009

"This awful seminary"

A few weeks back Cleansing Fire posted this photo of 25 members of the Fathers of Mercy and asked if anyone could identify the third priest from the left in the top row.

It turned out the cleric is Fr. Frank Fusare, C.P.M.

What made this exercise interesting is that Fr. Frank was at one time a diocesan priest here in DOR. He was ordained by Bishop Clark in 1996 and the combox conversation around the post (especially here) indicated that he had been driven out of the diocese because he insisted on preaching what the Church teaches on homosexuality.

I was interested in learning more about Fr. Frank and quickly found out that he was one of three presenters on Saint Joseph Communications' Confronting the Gay Agenda - The Catholic Truth About Homosexuality. Intrigued both by the title and Fr. Frank's experience in DOR I ordered a copy.

Fr. Frank's presentation is entitled The Effects Of The Homosexual Agenda and is a detailed account of what homosexual activists hope to achieve and the effects their success would have on society.

But what is really of interest is the following excerpt from the early part of his talk where he is, in a sense, establishing his credentials (my transcription and emphasis):

I can make these claims with 100% certainty - 100% - because I've not only read about this issue but for years I've heard with my own ears what militant, active homosexuals have to say by viewing their rallies and listening to their speeches and because I was forced to attend a seminary that protected militant homosexuals.

Now let me stop for a second and tell you that before I was a member of the Fathers of Mercy I was a priest in a diocese in this country, so the Fathers of Mercy did not send me to this awful seminary, it was the diocese that I was from originally.

That diocese, of course, is DOR and the seminary is St. Mary's in Baltimore, the "Pink Palace" of Michael S. Rose's Goodbye, Good Men.

In Chapter 4 of his book Rose writes,

According to former seminarians and recently ordained priests, the "gay subculture" is so prominent and accepted at St. Mary’s Seminary in Baltimore that students have long nicknamed it "The Pink Palace."

Father Andrew Walter, ordained for the Diocese of Bridgeport, Connecticut in 2000, spent several semesters at the Baltimore school as a seminarian for the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. The problem was so bad when he was there, he explained, that "some of the students and faculty used to get dressed up in leather to go to ‘the block,’ Baltimore’s equivalent to 42nd Street in Manhattan."

Seminarians, sometimes accompanied by faculty members, would do this regularly, Walter explained. "They would meet in the foyer, and then head for the gay bars."

That's the seminary that Bishop Clark forced Frank Fusare to attend.

Elsewhere in his book Rose quotes Fr. Charles Fiore of Wisconsin,

If the bishops and rectors don't know that this kind of rot is eating away-at the innards of the church, at its future vitality, that's misfeasance. If they know but do nothing to stop it that's malfeasance! And the faithful should demand a top-to-bottom housecleaning where such situations exist. Certainly they are not morally obliged financially to support this ecclesiastical incompetence.

I couldn't agree more.

Coming Out Day at Nazareth College

Lee Strong has a well written post up on Nazareth College's participation in yesterday's National Coming Out Day.

I know a local young man who attended MCC and then transferred to Nazareth to complete a B.A. in social work.  He graduated this past June.

He reports that the school - or, at least, that department - was so radically feminist that he felt like he was walking on egg shells his entire two years there.

He credits his eight years in the army with giving him the ability to get along with just about any one, but still his time at Nazareth was a real test for a heterosexual male.

Friday, October 9, 2009

Stories in stained glass

From ...

Beautiful windows

As part of the Rochester River Romance Celebration, Holy Cross Church — 4492 Lake Ave. in the Charlotte area of Rochester and just over the O’Rorke Bridge from Irondequoit — is hosting a free tour of the 50 historic, pictorial stained glass windows there from 12:30 to 2:30 p.m. this Saturday.

Each of the windows illustrates a biblical passage, and the tour was created by Maureen Staves, a longtime parishioner and member of the choir. Tour volunteers will share historical and biblical information as it relates to each window and answer any questions.

The windows are also featured in the book “Our Faith Illustrated in Stained Glass,” which will be sold at the event. See for more information.

Full article here.

Sixty-four vs. six

Dave Hartline has a must-read post on The American Catholic.

The statistics don’t lie. To say that surging numbers and priestly vocations are tied to Church orthodoxy would be an understatement. An example from my 2006 book, The Tide is Turning Toward Catholicism best illustrates this point. The Diocese of Rochester, which is considered to be one of the most liberal in America, has a Catholic population of 342,000. They have a total of six seminarians studying for the priesthood. The Archdiocese of Omaha has a Catholic population of 230,000 with 30 seminarians. In Nebraska, the Diocese of Lincoln (run by perhaps the most conservative ordinary in America, Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz) has a population of 89,236 Catholics with 24 in their local seminary and 10 in other seminaries. Put another way, while Lincoln and Omaha do not have as many Catholics as Rochester, these two dioceses had sixty-four men studying for the priesthood while Rochester had only six men.

Full post here.

Thursday, October 8, 2009

Do Catholics Have to Believe All that the Church Teaches?

Jason Hull, aka haojiesheng, has taken many of John Martignoni's Two-Minute Apologetics audio clips and converted them into videos.

One of my favorites is Martignoni's demonstration of the absurdity of "cafeteria" Catholicism.

The rest of haojiesheng's video work is here.

Bible Christian Society, Martignoni's website that is loaded with free audio downloads, is here.

DOR publicly acknowledges decline

Three months ago in his Along the Way column, Bishop Matthew Clark observed,
While it is no secret that Mass attendance has generally declined since the mid-1960s nationwide — not unlike attendance for other mainline Christian denominations — we saw last year in our own diocese a leveling off of that trend. [my emphasis]
I wrote at the time that His Excellency seemed misinformed, as his own Pastoral Planning people were reporting a 2008 Average October Attendance number that was almost 4% lower than the 2007 AOA, and that 2008 number meant that DOR had lost 25% of its weekend Mass-attending Catholics in a mere 8 years. (Also see here.)

The Catholic Courier has now confirmed my reporting.  In an online article appearing Monday, the Courier's Mike Latona wrote,
Yet declines also are evident in more concrete statistics: In addition to a 25-percent decrease in Sunday-Mass attendance across the Rochester Diocese from 2000-08, the number of recorded baptisms and marriages each fell off by approximately 50 percent between 1994 and 2007.
Latona makes an attempt at softening the impact of this decline by citing somewhat similar statistics from neighboring dioceses. 
But he proves too much - far too much! - when he cites Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) research showing that "the Catholic population of New York state decreased by 7 percent between 1990 and 2008."
A 7% drop in the Catholic population over 18 years works out to an average loss of 0.40% per year.  DOR's Mass attendance, however, has been falling at an average rate of 3.58% per year.  In other words, we have been losing Mass attendees 9 times faster than Catholics have been leaving the state.
And so it would seem that the "demographic shift," so long a favorite rationalization for decline among DOR officials, simply cannot carry anywhere near the level of blame that these apologists would like to heap upon it.
Something else is obviously going on. The question now is: What?

"Does the bishop matter?"

Two years ago released its 32-page Diocesan Report 2007.  [Note: This report has disappeared from the website; fortunately, the Wayback Machine has preserved a copy here.] The opening paragraph reads,
This analysis began with the question, “Does the bishop matter?” It arrives at an interesting pair of conclusions. The first is that there is no problem ailing the Catholic Church in America that is not being addressed successfully in some place, and typically in multiple places. Second, there is a cadre of bishops, invisible to the national media, largely unknown outside their dioceses, absent from Washington political circles, who are truly unsung heroes of the Church, presiding over vibrant communities, building the Church, and effectively proclaiming the Faith—men such as Bishop Joseph Kurtz of Knoxville, Archbishop Michael Sheehan of Santa Fe, and Bishop Daniel Conlon of Steubenville, to name just a few.
The report goes on to assign a ranking to each of the 176 Latin Rite dioceses in the United States, excluding Puerto Rico and territories. This ranking is based on 3 criteria: the morale of the presbyterate, the number of vocations, and effective evangelization. (See the report for an explanation of how these areas were rated.)
In overall ranking DOR finished 174 out of 176.  Among the 28 dioceses of similar size (i.e., +/- 25% of DOR's Catholic population), we finished dead last.
The report concludes,
The final question, however, is how much influence a bishop has on diocesan ranking. The clear answer: a great deal. After having systematically examined a number of external factors that might account for the vitality of a diocese, the bottom line remains that variations in the ranking of the dioceses cannot be definitively accounted for by region, size, or population change. Neighboring dioceses can and do have substantially different ratings. And most compelling, the ranking of the dioceses do change—sometimes dramatically—from one decade to the next. Absent other explanations, the number-one factor that accounts for this variation is the quality of the diocesan leadership.

A bit of advice to DOR

It is time to quit blaming our decline ("collapse" might be a better word) on "demographic shifts," "generational shifts" and any other factors outside of our control. As Inside Catholic reports, there is no problem ailing us "that is not being addressed successfully in some place, and typically in multiple places."
It's time to do a little of what business people call benchmarking: Identifying best practices and emulating them.
And if that means abandoning "progressive Catholicism" and returning to orthodoxy, then so be it.

Sunday, October 4, 2009

Holy Cross, Holy Trinity slapped hard by CMA

Last year Holy Cross Church in Charlotte missed raising its Catholic Ministries Appeal assessment by just over $8,200. As a reward, this year the diocese has raised that assessment by more than $5,000.

Holy Trinity in Webster has fared even worse. Last year they fell almost $18,000 short and so this year's CMA assessment has been raised by over $9,300.

Both parishes had their schools closed by Bishop Clark in 2008.

Updated Table of Year over Year CMA Assessments:

A little help, please!

The above table is far from complete. If you know the 2009-10 CMA assessment for any of these parishes please leave a note in the comment box.

Saturday, October 3, 2009

DOR hides its CMA allocation data

Ever vigilant, the folks over at Cleansing Fire have caught DOR in another instance of disinformation or - in this case - destruction of information.

When the section dealing with the 2009-10 CMA first went up on there was a page letting the potential donor know exactly what percentage of his or her contribution would go to various ministries and services. 

That page has now disappeared and has been replaced by one that looks to have been pasted together in a real hurry, as one paragraph and a collection of 10 bullet points are simply repeated verbatim within a short span of text (see here).

Cleansing Fire, however, captured a screen shot of the original page before it was cast into the digital dustbin and that image is available on their site.

Google also captured the original page, cached it, and has made it available here.

Finally, to provide one more source of this data, the original 2009-10 CMA allocation data - complete with links - is repeated below:

2009-2010 CMA Allocations

Faith Formation 10%
Sacramental preparation, Adult Education, Campus, CYO Young Adult and Youth Ministry Programs

Catholic Schools 5%
Support for programs, aid to students and schools

Catholic Charities 13%
Support for the 10 regional offices / agencies serving people throughout our 12 counties.

Parish Support Ministries 18%
Liturgical, Urban, Rural, Multicultural & Jail Services, Subsidies & Programs

Human Resources 4%
Staff recruitment & training, support to St. Bernard School of Theology & Ministry

Bishop's Ministry / Pastoral Planning 10%
Bishop's Office, consultative councils and planning services

Diocesan-wide Administrative & Support Services 19%
Hospital Chaplaincy, Stewardship, Finance, Information Technology, etc.

Pastoral Center Operation & Services 15%
Operational and system costs of the diocesan offices

CMA Campaign Costs 6%
Campaign staff, materials, data processing and postage

Total Goal: $5,490,000

Now the question is, why doesn't DOR want its CMA contributors to know how much of their money is going to which ministries and services?